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Post by donjohnson on Dec 10, 2007 14:06:01 GMT -5
Trade Breakdown - Edward Pasquale for Parker VanBuskirk = Great Trade Nigel Williams for Brendan Taylor = Underpaid Jan Mursak for 2 - 3rd Rounders = Underpaid I think it's unrealistic to evaluate this trade by going player for player as stated above. I can present an opposite argument here: Pasquale for Mursak: Solid Trade...we get the top '90 goalie for a player who is not going to be here next season...and we're not going to win the OHL Championship this year so might as well load up for a future run. Taylor/3rd('10) for Williams: Probably favors Belleville slightly (unless the 3rd rounder becomes a top player.) I think that with Williams' departure his turnovers, lack of toughness/effort and joining the rush too often will actually help up this season. 3rd('08) for VanBuskirk: Solid Trade...we get a 3rd Rounder for a guy that operates the bench door...pretty easy to see this one. When you look at it my way, it suddenly becomes a pretty even trade. When you combine the fact that Williams hasn't been putting out the effort that most of the others have, it may actually lean in our direction. |
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Post by SaginawGensFan on Dec 10, 2007 16:12:42 GMT -5
Trade Breakdown - Edward Pasquale for Parker VanBuskirk = Great Trade Nigel Williams for Brendan Taylor = Underpaid Jan Mursak for 2 - 3rd Rounders = Underpaid I think it's unrealistic to evaluate this trade by going player for player as stated above. I can present an opposite argument here: Pasquale for Mursak: Solid Trade...we get the top '90 goalie for a player who is not going to be here next season...and we're not going to win the OHL Championship this year so might as well load up for a future run. Taylor/3rd('10) for Williams: Probably favors Belleville slightly (unless the 3rd rounder becomes a top player.) I think that with Williams' departure his turnovers, lack of toughness/effort and joining the rush too often will actually help up this season. 3rd('08) for VanBuskirk: Solid Trade...we get a 3rd Rounder for a guy that operates the bench door...pretty easy to see this one. When you look at it my way, it suddenly becomes a pretty even trade. When you combine the fact that Williams hasn't been putting out the effort that most of the others have, it may actually lean in our direction. You beat me to that response, Don - I was going to say the same thing. Also, factor in that none of the 3 we traded away will be here next year anyway! |
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Post by darrenpangfan on Dec 10, 2007 16:21:58 GMT -5
An interesting read is Terry Doyle's take on the trade. Here is the link: loosepucks.com/index.php?blog=3&p=451&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#more451Personally, I think it is a good trade from the perspective that Saginaw potentially gets their franchise goaltender for the next 3 seasons. Pasquale is eligible for the 2009 NHL draft which means that he could possibly be here for 3 1/2 seasons. For the present, I really would like the Spirit get some depth to fill in for the injured and the departed. I also would like to see Saginaw have 4 overagers until cutdown day. Not having the maximum amount of overagers is a waste to me. |
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Post by igive2 on Dec 10, 2007 17:09:26 GMT -5
OK, get out a pencil - this is a deal where there is some simple math involved:
Pasquale is 17 (has 2.5 yrs. left plus a possible OA year)
Taylor in 18 (had 1.5 yrs. left plus a possible OA year)
3rd Rd in 2008 is born in 1992 (poss. 4 yrs. plus an OA year)
3rd Rd in 2010 is born in 1994 (poss. 4 yrs. plus an OA year)
Mursak (0.5 yrs. left, little chance as an OA - Senators draft)
Williams (0.5 yrs. left, little chance as an OA - Avalanche draft)
Van Buskirk (0.5 yrs. left plus a potential OA year)
If my math is correct, you are getting about 16 yrs. of eligibility from Belleville in exchange for about 2.5 yrs max.
That's a ratio I'd take on a deal any day - especially if you get a touted stopper in Pasquale.
Math class is dismissed.
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Post by spiritfan8 on Dec 10, 2007 17:24:58 GMT -5
An interesting read is Terry Doyle's take on the trade. Here is the link: loosepucks.com/index.php?blog=3&p=451&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#more451Thank you, Terry Doyle. We can be non-GMs together........... As to the above math: If you get every possible day out of the 3 players the Spirit obtained, that is about 16 years. That means from Day 1 as underagers to Day Omega as overagers--assuming that the picks make it at all. Statistics class is dismissed. |
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Post by SaginawGensFan on Dec 10, 2007 17:33:24 GMT -5
And Mursak is a Red Wings draft pick, not Senators. I know, simple mistake.
Fact check class dismissed. (I am only messing around! haha!)
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Post by sagspiritsfan on Dec 10, 2007 18:12:10 GMT -5
How can you even relate to years of eligibility in relation to draft picks??? Have you seen our drafts?
Craig - Not in the league
Soboczynski - Not in the league
Ferguson - Not in the League
Fletcher - Waived through the league then picked up by Niagara
Corrente - Niagara
Torquato - Erie
Clouthier - Barrie
The draft means nothing, its a crapshoot. The player might not report, the player might not pan out like he was supposed to.
And in terms of years of eligibility left, It means nothing if the players arent any good.
The only player im looking forward to watching is Pasquale
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Post by teamspirit08 on Dec 10, 2007 18:22:13 GMT -5
And you also get guys like Williams (14th round), Comrie (9th), Brodie (3rd), Pyatt (2nd), Daniels (3rd)....well, you get the picture.
Most teams in the league have the same challenges with a 15-year old draft - you just don't follow it close enough or hear about who they picked/kept/traded.
Actuarial Class (if thats a word) is over.
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Post by sagspiritsfan on Dec 10, 2007 18:30:04 GMT -5
We took flyers on Williams on Comrie.. okay they happened to pan out..
Regardless .. we dont have williams on the team anymore and we got nothing for him so add him to the pot..
Nobody on this forum even wants Daniels on the team anymore..
Pyatts a steal in the 2nd round??? not bad for 21
You cant sit there and tell me that our drafting is what is should be considering we have a full time head scout. It should be better then it is.
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acin
2nd Liner
Posts: 181
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Post by acin on Dec 10, 2007 19:29:32 GMT -5
Nobody on this forum even wants Daniels on the team anymore.. Let's show the guy some support please. At least he's actually stuck with this team instead of giving up on it. |
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Post by donjohnson on Dec 10, 2007 20:13:22 GMT -5
1) Regardless .. we dont have williams on the team anymore and we got nothing for him so add him to the pot.. 2) Nobody on this forum even wants Daniels on the team anymore.. 1) If you didn't read, Williams was part of a big trade that just happened with Belleville. We got a goalie, forward and 2 draft picks for him, Mursak and VanBuskirk...so, we didn't get "nothing" for him. www.saginawspirit.com/ss/home.nsf/public/177A3E8B463930C2852573AC008134662) I want Daniels on the team and i am in this forum...personally, i feel he's our only chance to make the playoffs. If you have any more generalizations to make, feel free. |
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Post by teamspirit08 on Dec 10, 2007 20:15:54 GMT -5
Brad Larter, Sam Skwarchuk, Gary Klapkowski, Bill Kinkel, Carlo DiRienzo, Matt Auffrey, Chris Gravelding, Carlo DiRienzo, Jack Combs, Yves Bastien, Matt Meszaros, Dan Kelly, Mike Mascioli, Jamie Commerford.
Aside from Combs, Bastien and Kelly; thats the luck the reknowned Kitchener Rangers have had in the last seven years in rounds 2 and 3.
There are several other OHL teams have had similar luck in the early rounds when dealing with a 16-year old draft.
I'd matchup the Spirits' 2nd and 3rd rounders over the years (Pyatt, Asselin, Fletcher, Szwarz, Brodie, Daniels, etc.) with the Rangers picks any day!
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Post by ohlfan06 on Dec 10, 2007 20:33:56 GMT -5
Nobody on this forum even wants Daniels on the team anymore.. quote] I too would have to disagree with you here. Besides from McDonough, Daniels is the only other player on that ice that gives his all. He hasn't given up on this team and in all honesty if I was him it'd be hard for me not to. Daniels is a great goaltender however he has not been given the tools or the opprotunity to prove himself 100% yet. This is his time, however he doesn't have the tools (a developed team) in order to go the great distance, none the less I am happy to have him here. I think we need to start giving him some respect, he has been here through a lot of the difficult times, as have McDonough and Combs, and these three players are the three that we should be supporting because they are dedicated to this team..Do I even need to point out once again that our former captain left us? Is that dedication? NO. Yet we still have given Asselin more respect than Daniels has ever gotten..this I will never understand. I'm sorry for the ranting and raving, but this is getting a little ridiculous. This trade in all reality has given us a chance at a good up and coming goalie but that is it. Nothing more. Taylor, from the few times I've seen him play has been less than stellar..I wish the best of luck to the team and those dedicated players who have stuck with this organization..it seems like thats getting harder and harder to do as time goes on.. |
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Post by statestreet2005 on Dec 10, 2007 20:38:10 GMT -5
Brad Larter, Sam Skwarchuk, Gary Klapkowski, Bill Kinkel, Carlo DiRienzo, Matt Auffrey, Chris Gravelding, Carlo DiRienzo, Jack Combs, Yves Bastien, Matt Meszaros, Dan Kelly, Mike Mascioli, Jamie Commerford. Aside from Combs, Bastien and Kelly; thats the luck the reknowned Kitchener Rangers have had in the last seven years in rounds 2 and 3. There are several other OHL teams have had similar luck in the early rounds when dealing with a 16-year old draft. I'd matchup the Spirits' 2nd and 3rd rounders over the years (Pyatt, Asselin, Fletcher, Szwarz, Brodie, Daniels, etc.) with the Rangers picks any day! How we get anyone in the draft is beyond me. To use Kitchener as an example, they have had one Coach/GM in the time that we have spun 5 through our model franchise. |
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Post by SaginawGensFan on Dec 10, 2007 22:14:12 GMT -5
Why do some of you even bother going to games or follow the team? There is never a positive word out of some people's mouths. The Flint Generals play hockey right down the road if you are not happy with the way things are in Saginaw. Or you might be happier if there were no team at all in town... then they couldn't trade the wrong players or draft the wrong players or hire the wrong GM.....
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