It's trade deadline time again!

[spiritfan8]

The Record article implies that the Rangers are not interested in Combs because he is not interested in returning to Kitchener. Combs has made no particular secret of his desire to beat the Rangers every time the Spirit play them.

I'd give my eye teeth to have a reporter that covered the Spirit like that. Of course, part of the problem is that the Spirit are not the hot read that the Rangers are in Kitchener, so there is no reason to assign someone particularly good to cover them.

My favorite Constantine line of the year? The column about Todd Watson building chemistry in the room. Something to the effect of "I haven't been around this year's team too much to observe how they interact, but people tell me.....etc" PEOPLE TELL ME??? Why would you advertise how lazy and /or stupid you are??

EDIT: Of course, I was just reading a thread on the NOOF where the Kitchener people were savaging the guy who wrote this column. So maybe we should take it with a grain of salt........

[darrenpangfan]

I agree with you 100% that we have to take The Record article with a grain of salt. But with that being said, this is the most information (Not Message Board Related) I have discovered dealing with what Saginaw might do with either McDonough or Combs.

I liked the article because it named players who could be involved in a trade. The article didn't beat around the bush and say well it could be a forward or a defenseman or draft picks. It named names and that is what impressed me. The writer wasn't afraid to write that this player or that player could be dealt.

[bpfox]

Don't read too much into this article. It's no big deal to name names. In fact it's easy to do. All you have to do is go to any teams roster and they have all the players listed there. That's right, this time of year every team and every player has the potential to be part of a trade. It all comes down to who do you want and who are you willing to give up to get him. It's not exactly big news that folks would be talking about Ryan McDonough and Jack Combs. They have been part of almost every thread about trades including this one.

You will notice that the article about Kitchener also states that Saginaw's asking price is quite high. That does not mean Saginaw wants to trade McDonough. It means that every player has a price and if you want Ryan, you are going to have to pony up. Saginaw is in the driver's seat here and Don Edwards knows that. He is in no hurry and is not desperate to trade anybody. He is free to field offers and not pull the trigger until and unless some desperate GM pulls a Mancini and wants to mortgage the future of his team for a run this year. Will it happen? Who knows. All I know is the Kitchener article pretty much confirms in my mind everything I posted in the beginning of this thread.

Keep in mind one other thing. There are no games being played right now. So the speculation business is in full swing. Rumors are flying about and it's pretty easy to start one if you want to. Sometimes they get started because fan "A" says to fan "B", "wouldn't it be great if we could get this guy from team X", and the fun begins. We should take every thread, every post and every article we read with a grain of salt.

Right now Saginaw is one of those teams that is viewed as a rebuilding team. As such, GMs will look to Saginaw as a team that is willing to move it's older players in exchange for younger players. In fact they have demonstrated that with the recent trade will Belleville. What most people are not looking at is the fact that Edwards and Watson are building the team the way Watson wants it to be. Going after his kind of guys. I have tried to tell people that the trade with Belleville was not only a move for the future, but made the team better this year. There are many non-believers, but Saginaw just went out and won three games in a row including wins over London and Brampton.

Bottom line here is Edwards has done a good job. He has managed to restock the shelves with picks that were sold away last season. And he has done it without sacrificing this year's team. I hope he continues with this pattern and does not pull the trigger on trading any of Saginaw's top players unless someone makes him an offer he simply cannot refuse. Just remember, every player is tradeable. Even Wayne Gretzky. Peace.

[tuppura]

Hmm....Edwards has done a good job.

I take issue with that. I give him a C.

Asselin got dealt on his terms, to a team he wanted to go to, no player in return.

While A second and fifth might be GREAT but picks were not what this team needed. It needed bodies. They have first year players who play every game, and sometimes having that extra body bodes well for the motivation. So Assselin trade - No good from my perspective. I can't imagine that a 27 goal scorer and as many as he has this year...is worth more than a 2nd and 5th. Was the timing right - I don't think so. Had they waited they could have got so much more...

The Big deal - Jan Mursak and Nigel Williams plus Buskirk is paying full value and then some for a young goalie. Yes he gets the picks, as a nice addition, but the reality is when you trade 2 top players and get only the goalie back...that is simply not enough. Taylor not withstanding...

He could have had Taylor off waivers. Rumor is he played for Edwards in Tier II...so trading for a free agent walk on out of tier II and a great young goalie...for a NHL 2nd round Defenseman and a top six forward is stripping the team of too much right now and getting not enough in return.

And now the question remains, will he make more deals where he gives up STAR players - stripping the team of all its goal scoring, and get back less than we deserve.

[donjohnson]

tuppura said:

Hmm....Edwards has done a good job.

I take issue with that. I give him a C.

Asselin got dealt on his terms, to a team he wanted to go to, no player in return.

While A second and fifth might be GREAT but picks were not what this team needed. It needed bodies. They have first year players who play every game, and sometimes having that extra body bodes well for the motivation. So Assselin trade - No good from my perspective. I can't imagine that a 27 goal scorer and as many as he has this year...is worth more than a 2nd and 5th. Was the timing right - I don't think so. Had they waited they could have got so much more...

The Big deal - Jan Mursak and Nigel Williams plus Buskirk is paying full value and then some for a young goalie. Yes he gets the picks, as a nice addition, but the reality is when you trade 2 top players and get only the goalie back...that is simply not enough. Taylor not withstanding...

He could have had Taylor off waivers. Rumor is he played for Edwards in Tier II...so trading for a free agent walk on out of tier II and a great young goalie...for a NHL 2nd round Defenseman and a top six forward is stripping the team of too much right now and getting not enough in return.

And now the question remains, will he make more deals where he gives up STAR players - stripping the team of all its goal scoring, and get back less than we deserve.

dude, this thread is not entitled "What we think of Don Edwards." The reason this board gets out of hand sometimes is not respecting the threads and just typing for the heck of it.

However, I do understand that you're celebrating Festivus instead of Christmas and that the first part of your holiday is the "airing of grievances" so i'll give you a pass. I hope that after your meal, that you can take out some of your anti-GM anger during the "feats of strength".

FESTIVUS FOR THE REST OF US!!!

[bpfox]

tuppura, you are so far off on this one I hope you get a "tomtom" for Christmas so you can find your way back.

Let me see if I can help. On the Asselin deal, by all accounts Patrick wanted out before the season started. I hardly think he got the trade he wanted on his terms. The going rate over the years for overage players has been a single pick. It was not realistic to expect a player in return. That very rarely happens. To get two picks for Patrick makes it a good trade.

To try and put some focus on the "Big Deal" you really need to try and break things down a bit.

The top prize in the deal coming from Belleville was Pasquale. The top prize going to Belleville was Jan Mursak. Any GM worth his salt would make this deal straight up. All day long. In fact, if anything, this deal is just a little tilted in Saginaw's favor. Mursak will not play in this league next year, was under achieving in Saginaw this year, and Pasquale figures to be a star goalie in this league for at least the next two seasons. The other think of note here, and I have said it before, is the fact that Mursak had limited marketability because he is an import. You might not think so, but it makes a huge difference.

Look at the trade of Williams as being for Taylor and one of the 3rd round picks. Once again, this trade favors Saginaw. Williams will not be back in the league next season. Was underachieving in Saginaw this season and was not a team player. Watson is building a team based on team play. The Spirit have not missed a beat with out him. That's no accident. Everyone seems to want to balance this deal based on individual talent. But it's team talent that wins games.

The VanBuskirk part of the deal is the other pick. We got VanBuskirk for Ryan Berard and the going rate for average overagers is a 3rd round pick. Looks to me like we got our third round pick for Berard.

I have looked at this trade from every angle and it comes up favoring Saginaw every time. It was a move for the future, but guess what, the team got better this year too.

This time of year there will always be complaints about which players got cut from the Canadian World Junior Team. The complaints seem to center on the fact that this player has more talent than the guy they kept. As Herb Brooks would have told you, if you want the best team you have to pick the right players not the best players. In the most recent trades we gave up a forward, a defense-man, a goalie and two picks. We picked up a forward, a defense-man, goalie and two picks. Could you please explain to me how that equals not getting players in return? My math says it came out equal in terms of the numbers.

Don't get too hung up on the whole NHL drafted player thing. I think Saginaw proved big time last season that having a ton of NHL drafted players equals championship team. It didn't even equal second round playoff team.

Only time will tell how these moves ultimately work out, but anytime you can make your team better in future seasons as well as the current one, you have done a good job in my book.

[MidlandSpiritFan]

bpfox said:

In the most recent trades we gave up a forward, a defense-man, a goalie and two picks. We picked up a forward, a defense-man, goalie and two picks. Could you please explain to me how that equals not getting players in return? My math says it came out equal in terms of the numbers.

bp.....what d-man did we pick up in the recent trades?? We picked up Taylor (forward), d-man (??), Pasquale (goaltender), and 2 picks. I know I'm nitpicking but just want to make sure I didn't miss something. I agree with your overall analysis on these trades. Saginaw had to address their future in goal and they have done that in getting Pasquale. I'm sure he will also contribute positively this season before all is said and done.

[bpfox]

The kids name is Joe Underwood. We picked him up from Guelph for a 15th round pick and a conditional 6th round pick. He's from Michigan and is more of a "stay at home" defenseman. And I know you will like this, he shoots right handed. While straight up he might not have all of the individual talent that Nigel Williams has, he has the talent our team needed. He's level headed, plays his position well and shoots right. Nigel on the other hand makes a lot of mental mistakes on the ice, gets caught out of position and was just another left hand shot defenseman. I know there are those out there who will miss his hard shot, but guess what. Adam Comrie shoots just as hard. Not sure if you cant tell, but I like the way the team is starting to shape up. Peace and Merry Christmas.

PS: You will notice in my post I said "trades" not trade and I said we gave up two picks. That was the Underwood trade part.

[MidlandSpiritFan]

bpfox said:

The kids name is Joe Underwood. We picked him up from Guelph for a 15th round pick and a conditional 6th round pick. He's from Michigan and is more of a "stay at home" defenseman.

Thanks, forgot about the trade with Guelph for Underwood.

[tiboomer]

I agree with you BP. Nigel was not a star player. The kid has a very likable personality. Bad hockey player. He has a great shoot, but most of the time it is right at the player in front of him. Sometimes those blocked shoots resulted in great scoring chances for the other team. Fan in Belleville are already seeing his defensive and puck handling flaws. Jan Mursak was a big disappointment. Has been MIA since the second half of last season. Most players coming back from NHL camps learn something and step up their game. Not Jan. Patrick Asseslin wanted out of Saginaw last year. Edwards got what he wanted in the deal. Sometimes I think our fans overvalue the quality of the players we have. Please note, I am not saying we don't have any good players, just that some fans seem to think we should be able to get Lexus's and Mercedes for them. Only time will tell whether Edwards is a good GM or not. Brooks was right, you take a team of good players working a system as one, they will beat a team of great players working as individuals every time. This groups of kids is starting to become a team. This team outplayed a good London team. Yes, Mason was gone, but our skaters out-played and out-hustled London's skaters. So far, I think Edwards has done a good job. Saginaw is in the drivers seat regarding McDonough and Combs. I would make someone pay dearly to get one of them.

[bpfox]

Time to bring this back up to the top.

The trade deadline is looming large. Speculation has been there might just be a few Spirit players that might draw some interest from top teams trying to improve their teams for a run at the title. Could the Spirt part with Ryan Daniels? The top two teams looking for goaltending help were Kitchener and Oshawa. Kitchener made last weeks news by pulling a blockbuster deal with London to acquire Mason. Now just in, Oshawa inks a deal with Windsor to acquire Neuvirth. Does this mean Ryan will finish his OHL career in Saginaw? Is there another trade possibility?

What do you all think? This is one of the most exciting weeks in the OHL. Let's take a break from talking about radio announcers and slurpees for a moment and get some hockey talk going. Peace.

[MidlandSpiritFan]

Let's look at the other contenders:

Sarnia picked up Perugini and Nikiforov from Barrie.

Soo has not made any moves. There is a rumor thread on the NOOF about this with all sorts of ideas being thrown around.

Windsor is obviously pointing towards next season and beyond by trading Neuvirth.

Plymouth has not made any moves. They are all set in goal with Jeremy Smith. Nothing on the NOOF or the Whalers forum about any other looming deals for them.

In the east Oshawa, Belleville, and Brampton have all made some big moves recently.

Me thinks given the above circumstances that Ryan Daniels, Ryan McDonough, and Jack Combs will all be here after the deadline.

[acin]

I will be rattled if they trade anyone.

[spiritfan8]

Kitchener and Oshawa were considered the two teams that HAD to have an update at goal. Both of them have made moves. While I'd never say never, it would surprise me to see Daniels leave now.His stock in the last month has to have gone up, meaning he either stays (most likely) or the price is right for the Spirit.
Pretty much the same scenario for Combs and McD. I think if they were going, they'd have gone by now (again--nothing would surprise me, I just think this is most probable.) There was a Kitchener fan on the NOOF today bemoaning the trade that sent Combs to us. I liked Rizk, and he was a real character guy for the Rangers (their C for awhile) But at this point it looks like a good deal for the Spirit, for sure...............I also can't see Watson OK'ing the trade of two Cs in one season--just doesn't seem like his style.
Wow--Neuvirth to Oshawa. Windsor's new mgmt is dead serious about next season (when they came in last year, they were quoted as having a "three year plan") The good news is Baldwin left with him, so that's one less goon we have to worry about w/ the Spits (sorry to dj and others--but Windsor has plenty more where he came from) Start planning on the Spits being a real force next year--and they are pretty good THIS year.
The fire sale is on in London--how quickly the mighty fall. Just last season, this year's team was going to be their best ever. They will be back as good as ever in a couple of years. For now say goodbye to AJ Perry, their C and almost as big a whiner/diver as his older brother Corey, hated by all Wings' fans!!(and all OHL fans except London's.....) He joins the Bulls of Belleville, who strengthen themselves with the move.
Trade deadline week is the best. I'm so p***ed to be working all week, where we are blocked from all sports sites by our employer. (OK. So it's a hospital. And so we use those computers to help treat really sick people who need care STAT. Big deal....................)

[MidlandSpiritFan]

spiritfan8 said:

The fire sale is on in London--how quickly the mighty fall.

I'm not sure I would say quickly and here's why:

03-04 Upset by Guelph in Western Conference Finals
04-05 OHL and Memorial Cup Champions
05-06 Western Conference Champions, lost OHL Finals to the Petes
06-07 Lost Western Conference Finals to Plymouth
07-08 Fire Sale at Trade Deadline

It took nearly 3 years from the time they won the OHL Championship and Memorial Cup in the spring of 2005 to finally become sellers instead of buyers at the trade deadline. Had Kane and Gagne returned this season, they would be buying right now and not selling. I hope Saginaw has a run of 3 or 4 seasons like this in the future that we can all enjoy!!