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Post by tuppura on Sept 21, 2008 17:34:07 GMT -5
Noticed on the Noof that Coach Watson took some slack for his threat in the local paper - seems like it didn't sit to well with the fan. Made reference to the fact the team Bag skated the day before the game - and the morning after.
What does every one think of Skating the team at 6 am this morning - after playing the night before. According to one player - the fourth bag skate of the year...and we're 2 games in. What's the point of skating a team at that early hour.....seems a little over the top!!
Is threatening the team with such a skate in the local paper - is that acceptable?
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Post by spiritfan8 on Sept 21, 2008 17:41:33 GMT -5
www.mlive.com/spirit/index.ssf/2008/09/windsor_spitfires_shoot_down_s.htmlUnless "the team will find out how I feel, etc" is code for "get ready to skate your legs off" I don't see anything about a bag skate in this article. It could just mean get ready for a tough practice, because that was a game we could have won. That's what it would have meant when I was coaching (not hockey, granted)
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Post by acwright84 on Sept 21, 2008 17:44:22 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with it because when windsor scored their game winning goal guys were standing around and not playing full out. When guys are held accountable they are less likely to do it again. It is much more effective to have some accountability for poor play than just sitting back and saying "we did good against a good team don't worry about it".
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Post by IGive1 on Sept 21, 2008 18:16:44 GMT -5
In the BLC Watson mentioned that looking at the schedule, he was concerned about starting the year 0-10. I think he wants to nip that possibility in the bud by getting every possible thing out of the players. Windsor out worked the Spirit and Windsor had only 14 skaters. Watson has said that when he was with Plymouth, Saginaw was viewed as a team that did not work very hard. I think you will agree they are working harder than they ever did for Mancini.
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Post by newguy on Sept 21, 2008 19:16:32 GMT -5
In the BLC Watson mentioned that looking at the schedule, he was concerned about starting the year 0-10. I think he wants to nip that possibility in the bud by getting every possible thing out of the players. Windsor out worked the Spirit and Windsor had only 14 skaters. Watson has said that when he was with Plymouth, Saginaw was viewed as a team that did not work very hard. I think you will agree they are working harder than they ever did for Mancini. That argument always burns me. Just because they had far more talent which Mancini assembled, when did they "not work hard"? They had a 94 point season in 2006-07 and when your roster consists of Tom Pyatt, Ryan O'Marra, Patrick McNeill, Cody Bass, Patrick Asselin, Tyler Haskins, Garrett Sinfield, and Mursak and Zaborsky. I'd love to know which of those guys were lazy or loafing. Make no mistake, THIS team does work hard. You know why? They HAVE to. They're so off the map in terms of raw talent than the team here two years ago, it's essential to work hard, because on talent alone, they'd get drummed every night pretty much. That's why I appreciate watching them. But at the same time, think of the players I just mentioned above. They were "heart and soul" players. And as a lot of folks pointed out. This "hard-working" group took two awful penalties in the 3rd last night. Brodie because Lalonde snowed his goaltender which happens four times a night in any hockey game. And Chappell cross-checked a player about seven inches shorter than him in Ellis -- in the face. BOTH penalties came after the whistle, and yes, there were lots of guys standing around for the game-winning goal for Windsor. Where was the hard work in the 3rd period? You have FOUR more skaters than the other team. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Mancini's team worked amazingly hard, they just made it look easier because they were better players. Feel free to challenge that, but anyone with any sense of objectivity knows that's true. There's possibly five players on this team as they are playing right now who could even make the team two years ago. Trust me, Watson's coaching his TAIL off to get results from these guys. They can't just sit back and throw the puck on the ice and beat anybody. The 06-07 team could. |
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Post by IGive1 on Sept 21, 2008 19:59:43 GMT -5
In regards to work efforts of Mancini v Watson teams, I remember watching Mancini' teams and thinking they just don't work hard enough. Though very talented, they did not consistently finish their checks, they did not consistentlly fight thru checks or get first to pucks and play with a sense of urgency. Watson apparently felt the same way. It's hard to come to some qualitative measure that would indicate a difference between the two regimes, it's just an observation. Did the players you mention not work hard? No, I guess if you would ask them, they'd say they did work hard, but I'd still say the Watson teams worked harder (perhaps out of fear of pending hard practices  thus the sense of urgency. |
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Post by tiboomer on Sept 23, 2008 7:51:25 GMT -5
After Paul Bissonette was traded to Owen Sound, he did an interview. During the interview, he was asked what was the biggest adjustment he had to make playing in Owen Sound. His comment was, "I found out that I was out of shape". I also find it interesting that off all the players that we have had, the only one that has stayed in the NHL is Cody Bass. Cody appeared to me, to be the hardest worker I've seen here. Is that a knock against other players, no. Just an observation. If the Plymouth staff didn't respect Saginaw's work ethic, I think that says something. When you have a team that lacks 'star' talent, which this team does, you have to be the hardest working team to win. I have no problem with Watson skating those players. Better to play you brains out in a game than at practice. Hopefully everyone on the team learns this lesson, and soon.
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Post by newguy on Sept 23, 2008 9:48:47 GMT -5
Tom Pyatt. Lazy. Strong take.
Seriously, I would consider Chris Thorburn to have "been" a Saginaw Spirit.
And you're awfully quick in judging McNeill, Pyatt, Mursak, and potentially O'Marra as well. They've all been out of junior hockey for about 17 months. It's an absolute precious few who make it in the NHL in their rookie year.
And obviously all three have fought injury of some kind or another, especially McNeill and O'Marra, so I think the NHL/fitness and conditioning argument doesn't hold water.
It does suggest again though, that this team has never really had a superstar player. The first 3 months of Mursak being here, you could make that argument, but he kind of hit a wall towards the end of th season as the 1st-year Europeans tend to do.
I have no issue with Watson grinding them into the ground, either, especially after the mistakes and mental letdowns after a game they could have won. But don't be surprised if some players do pull the chute at some point. It doesn't make it right, but it CAN and DOES happen.
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Post by sensspiritfan on Sept 23, 2008 11:11:15 GMT -5
I would like to know who was standing around and not doing anything. I see players that are trying every shift. Some players may have been put in a situation that they were not ready to be in.
I'm sure Pasquale appreciated that Brodie stood up to a charging forward after the whistle. If you saw the play there was not really a stopping motion by Lalonde, he came in and shoved Brodie back toward Pasquale so then a Dman has to protect your goalie and if it takes a penalty to send a message to this player maybe the next time he will be a little shy to go to the net.
When the winning goal was scored by Hall we had two rookie Dmen on the ice with a total of approximately 8 games of experience between the two. Why would they be on the ice together at this time in a game.
Saginaw needs a D coach- something we have not had since Cook left last year no offence to Kisil. Last year Cook would not have had Brodie or Comrie on the ice together in the 3rd period let alone in the last 3-4 minutes of the game they would have been separated and played with Sinnfield or Breen until at least 15-20 games into the season.
Watson/Kisil need to take some of the heat for this loss as well as the players, sure the players may have not turned in the effort they wanted but they dropped the ball as well.
Sounds like there are some problems with morale right now that Watson has to take care of to make this team play up to his expectations.
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Post by newguy on Sept 23, 2008 12:17:54 GMT -5
Ask Watson who was standing around. It was his comments that got that proverbial ball rolling.
As for Brodie. Sorry - dumb penalty. Tie hockey game. 3rd period. Chance to beat the #1 team in the CHL. They have 14 skaters and you give them a powerplay over that? He's better than that, I know he is, and you know he is.
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Post by mccartystillsuxs on Sept 23, 2008 19:44:05 GMT -5
I dont think Lalonde got the message to not do it next time.. If I was him and I was in a close game and I knew that I could draw a power play for my team, I'd do it again and again. In a tie game you should be sending a message that your incontrol and you will do whatever it takes to try and win the game. Kind of like what Lalonde did..
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Post by tuppura on Sept 23, 2008 20:14:06 GMT -5
No doubt that things have changed a lot since Mancini. Team definitely can't be compared, in work ethic or style of play. I still think we worked hard, just had the wrong chemistry and too many late additions - we never did gell. Bob did an admirable job....
Don't get me wrong - this team works.
I like how hard our team works, but at what price. If skating them into the ground every time we lose is the answer - then every team would be competing for a Memorial Cup at the end of the year.
But I am starting to sense that style of coaching may only be effective year one - with a young team - now we need some guidance....calm influence to take it to the next level. Ever watch the bench - I sit right behind it - and can't help notice how livid Watson becomes - almost to the point of insanity. Can't imagine what that is like after a loss and threats in the newspaper that he is going to make his players pay.
Great point, last year D were "coached" you could see it in their play. There was a calmness in our zone, and with 3 young D - you'd never see them exposed....at least not in a close game.
Sinfield was a big part of the team last year and I thought Crawford, Brodie and Comrie all stepped up in his absence.
With Walch/Trecapelli on the ice against Windsor's top line in the 3rd period we were asking for trouble.....maybe its time we address that rather than punish the players for standing around!
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Post by thepuckman on Sept 23, 2008 20:58:15 GMT -5
The Spirit made way too many mistakes and foolish plays to win, and Watson let them know it. I have no idea if they bag-skated and frankly don't care. The D on the ice were there because Watson felt they could do the job, and remember you can't play Brodie every minute of every game. We played with three D-Men with less than 15 games of OHL experience, and that's tough for any team. But they can only get experience by playing in all situations. I guess I don't see how playing them in a blow-out helps them grow as opposed to playing in a close game where they have to take some responsibility? Mistakes in blow-outs are not as glaring as mistakes in close games. And that is how they learn. It hurts now because they lost the game, but in the long run it will benefit the club.
The D situation has been addressed - Comrie and Crawford are coming back. I agree that Trecapelli will sit. He only played a handful of shifts on Saturday anyway, so he sits.
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thus the sense of urgency.