Goslin vs. Saginaw News

[newguy]

A couple people told me Goslin went to town before Brady and Todd Watson did their bit on what he described as "lies and misinformation" in the Saginaw News.

If so, he's won back some love from me, in my book.

Anybody see it? Be as in-depth as you can.

I thought Constantine's article was quite factual, and though lacking competence, he IS allowed to have an opinion, as are we all. Was Goslin in full "spin" mode? Was there a pie chart?

Attendance was quite poor again Saturday, I don't think that can be denied. This is partly why management may not change at all this season with Edwards or Watson regardless of results. Paying off one or the other and bringing in a new GM or coach might be the difference this year between profit and loss.

They can't make money with less than 2000 in the building, and after reports of 1500 or so Wednesday, I would bet there was 2000 or 2100 at the absolute most Saturday.

[acwright84]

I was there and will try to describe the "tirade" as well as possible. First of all the main point he was trying to make was that we are not a "losing Franchise" he backed it up by saying the first three years were simply transition from north bay and in the last three years we have won more total games than any other team in the ohl. I Don't know how true that is though. He also seemed concerned about everyone talking about declining attendance. He said last year we ranked 5th in overall attendance behind London, Kitchener, Ottawa, and Sudbury and he gave reasons why each city beat us. London and Ottawa due to # of seats. Kitchener due to quality of team and Sudbury because hockey is "like the super bowl up there". He also threw several other teams under the bus saying we are further ahead of them as a franchise. I believe the teams he mentioned were Plymouth, Windsor, Erie, and Sarnia. There may have been another i'm not sure. It was kinda funny because I was watching Constantines face he was turning kinda red and chuckling the whole time. If someone else remembers something I missed please add.

[bpfox]

I understand the risk of starting a new war here, but the "official" attendance figures from Wednesday's game (3106) and Saturday's game (3535) are pretty accurate.

Now before you jump down my throat, hear me out. Attendance figures, as you are all well aware, are not attendance figures at all. They are "tickets sold" figures. You may not like it, but that is the way it is. Now also keep in mind that when the arena is only half full, it looks worse than it is. When only half the seats are full that still means there are over 2700 people sitting in the arena. Add to that the hundreds of folks who are not in their seats ( restrooms, just walking around, Blue Line Club, concessions, etc. ) plus the tickets sold but not used and it's not hard for those numbers to add up to 3000 plus.

Don't get me wrong here, the attendance is going to be down this year, but I suspect that is going to be a league wide situation. Other than London, Kitchener and the Soo, most of the teams are going to be fighting for customers.

Both Barrie and Peterborough had less than 2800 for their home openers.

These estimates of 1500 for Wednesday night's game and 2000 for Saturday's game are so far off it's ridiculous. Let's hope we never see another game when only 1500 are in attendance, I've been to too many games in Saginaw where that was the case. Please don't take my word for it. Next game, take a few minutes and count heads. It's not that hard to do. Here's a hint, count the empty seats because there are fewer of them. If you are not willing to that then don't come on here with your "estimates".

[newguy]

So, are the Florida Marlins attendance figures pretty accurate when they estimate 18,000 people at Dolphins Stadium? Yet a reporter this year literally did count everybody and find 616 people.

What organizations do is a) at worst, lying about attendance, b) at best, they double dip - they count ALL season ticketholders, including partial ticket plans, and then they ADD everybody in the house.

I will give up 1500 may be low for Wednesday, but I reasoned about 2100 or 2200. I'd bet my wisdom teeth that the actual number of people who paid to go to the game Saturday is far closer to 2100, than 3550. Wisdom. Teeth.

And there is a 0.0% chance that Saginaw outdraws Windsor this year.

Here's a prediction of teams that outdraw us..

London
Ottawa
Kitchener
Windsor
Sudbury
Barrie
Oshawa (Tavares factor and great new building)
Belleville (Mem Cup contender)
SS Marie (I find it hard to believe the Hounds didn't outdraw the Spirit last season)

I'd bet at best the Spirit will be 8th or 9th in attendance, at worst 13th or 14th.

And again on Goslin's "transition" point, you shouldn't miss the playoffs 3 straight years in transition. No one else besides the Mississauga Ice Dogs did. Teams like Erie, Brampton, the Detroit Jr Wings, Barrie -- all were pretty good teams and programs by their 3rd year. Saginaw wasn't.

Since the Spirit have been in the league, the following teams have made the OHL Finals.

Ottawa, Kitchener, Mississauga (Niagara), Guelph, London, Peterborough, Belleville, Sudbury, Plymouth.

That's nine of the other nineteen.

Making the Conference Finals but not making the OHL Finals:

St Mike's (Mississauga now), Barrie, Soo, Oshawa.

That makes thirteen of nineteen teams.

There's a good chance Windsor will be the 14th of 19 this year. So that leaves Kingston, Erie, Sarnia, Saginaw, Owen Sound, and Brampton. Erie won the league in 2002, so as much as their fans grumble and should (what a concept, when you think you're not getting what you deserve as fans, you try and change it). Brampton is a contender. Kingston is up-and-coming. Owen Sound is trying to rebuild as Windsor has, through the draft. Sarnia SHOULD consider tearing it up and rebuilding, and so should Saginaw. We had a great effort last night but the talent gap even with seven Windsor players away was obvious.

There's no Greg Nemisz. No Ryan Ellis. No Taylor Hall. I'll give you that Szwarw shows as much promise as a Yogan, Shugg, or Austin Watson (it's early for him) does for Windsor. But just think, we toyed with Windsor two seasons ago, and now they're an exceptionally more talented team. That's what's frustrating.

We have "steady" players but nobody bordering on stardom. Comparing Saginaw to Windsor is a poor example, perhaps, but Windsor is the envy of the league for how quickly they seem to have become an "elite" program. They've left Saginaw in the dust.

There's people a lot smarter than me (not hard to be), who simply have no idea what direction this franchise is headed. I feel like last year started a "rebuild", but then they went no further with it this year. And if you're going to rebuild through the draft, then your #1 pick in 2007 can't be what most feel is a bust, and an injured one at that, and the 2008 picks speak for themselves.

As BP - who I DO respect - suggests, if Saad and Parker show up next year, fantastic, but if like Nick Petrecki in Plymouth, these two never come, then it's set the franchise back years, not months.

[IGive1]

I predicted there would be 2,000 people for Wednesday and 3,400 for Saturday. I think that turned out to be accurate.

In regards to GG's comments (ACWright84 did a good job of recapping) .....I think we are at the point in time, well does anyone really believe what he says any more? Recent example, on Wednesday night in the BLC, he said they would have a big laser light show and the Gator truck or whatever it is would have a machine gun that would shoot Teeshirt into the crowd. I have no interest in seeing either of these items, but the fact is neither happened. Why would he say this type of stuff when it does not happen? I think it was smart to address the recent stories in The News, but at this point, it sounded like a lot of spin. Be honest, this franchise has not been a great example of communicating with the public for well, since the GM debacle of a couple summers ago.

There is a problem with the organization (I know many on here disagree) and I hope DG can recognize that and deal with it. He has some big decisions to make.

[spiritfan8]

Goslin was correct in what he said as far as he went. But he left out some things, specifically our abysmal playoff record. His comments on actual rank in attendance were probably also correct, but he did not address the year to year decline in numbers (a 20% drop in season ticket holders this year). And so on, ad nauseum. As the old saying goes, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics, and either side can pony up something to support their viewpoint.
IG1, newguy--you've hit the nail on the head.

[barclayplager]

North Bay fans went 8 years without a playoff team,, coaching changes and manager shuffles that produced notta.....your owner has deeper pockets but the chatter about fan decline and decreasing season ticket base are deja vu to the North Bay situation....the in between period circuses and constant jabber of in house DJ's did nothing to seat bums in the seats...better teams and playoff results are what improves fan interest ...if other teams are improving in cycles and Saginaw is stuck at the lower end then there is another area that needs to be addressed and it is not the coaching....smoke and mirrors can get old...and I like the owner..

[newguy]

The one thing I'll say through two games is this.

This team has NO star players.

Some real solid ones, but they don't have a player to bring people to watch one or two particular players.

And in six years, almost every other team has had an "elite" OHL player. I think we have had some very good ones. But none that you'd have ever said are Top 5 or possibly Top 10 in the league. Pyatt's overall play might justify being Top 10, and I'm a big Patrick McNeill fan but I'm not sure he's there. Mursak might have been Top 10 at one point.

But ask yourself honestly, are any of the 30 best players in the OHL playing for Saginaw right now?

I don't see it. Sorry.

That won't help attendance.

We've never had on offense a player like Bobby Ryan, Stamkos, Azevedo, Tavares, Kane, Gagner, or a player like Taylor Hall already is. Taylor Hall is a better player offensively at the age of 16 than anyone who has ever played in a Saginaw uniform.

This is not in essence a criticism, just a statement that a player like this might bring more people to games.

Not lasers. Not lame games during the intermission. And not lengthy pregame introductions. Some folks have yet to figure that out.