|
|
Post by Disco Stu on Apr 4, 2016 14:25:50 GMT -5
There are a number of issues regarding the Spirit team this offseason. So far as I can tell, they are:
1. The import dilemma
2. Who will be the coach?
3. Who should the 3rd overage player be?
4. Do they have the right group of 19 year olds?
5. How do they deepen their group of 18 year olds?
6. Are there any 17 year old rookies poised to join the team?
7. Who do they draft?
And perhaps there are more, but this is how I've decided to break it down. Each one is its own topic of discussion. We have already discussed the coach topic on another post (the topic of which didn't have anything to do with who the new coach should be but I digress).
So I should start posts on each of these topics throughout the summer so we can hash out what we think they should do or what we think they will do.
Last year, I wrote about how much I hated the change to the import rule (cannot trade picks) and this year is why. I'm sure the team expected to finish well enough that their import pick would be low enough that they could pass on it and keep their two imports. Now they will have an import pick once again in the top 15 and they should use it. The problem is that if they want to use this player, they will either need to trade their 18 year old top scorer about to enter his prime 19 year old season, or trade the player to whom they just gave the team's best defenceman award, who scored 27 points as a rookie 17 year old defenseman. This is what I refer to as the dilemma.
There is one loophole: the NHL draft. If Markus Niemeläinen is drafted in the first round of the NHL draft, then the Spirit can use their pick and temporarily add a 3rd import player to the roster. This would be especially helpful if the team that drafts Niemeläinen decides to move him to the AHL next year. Because he was loaned to Saginaw, he is apparently not bound by the NHL-CHL agreement that keeps CHL players 19 and under out of the AHL.
As for what I would do? I would wait for the NHL Draft, hope Niemeläinen is picked in the first round, then communicate with the team that chooses him as to what their plans are for him. Fortunately, the NHL Draft takes place before the import draft.
It is also possible that the import draft this year is a dry well and it makes sense to pass at pick 15, but I do not think this is likely to be the case.
I also know that there is frustration regarding Artemov, but the team has spent two years developing him, he was the leading scorer on the team, and he is about to enter his 19 year old season. He could fetch some value if they trade him (or if they trade Niemeläinen), but the market is restricted because of the import rules, so the value they receive for either player will perhaps not equal the value either can provide the team next season.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by kingpin794 on Apr 4, 2016 20:02:21 GMT -5
Yeah, the new rule was put in place to HELP smaller market teams...at least that was the theory. Exact opposite happened really and it just favors the perennial powers even more now.
As for our specific situation: a wouldn't count on Nemo being a first rounder. I think he's more likely a mid second. I think that's better for us. More likely that whoever drafts him wants to send him back to us to polish up some points before making his way to the AHL. If he is taken in the first round though, there would be legitimate reason to think he could absent from the Spirit roster for 2016-17.
So assuming Nemo is NOT selected in the first and we believe he will be returned, I think we should pass on the pick. I say that with a lot of hesitation though. While I believe Artemov is due for a big season next year, it's gonna be hard for any GM to pass up on as high of an import pick as we're gonna have.
The CHL really needs to rethink this rule cause what would have been perfect would be to trade that import pick for a sure fire top end defenseman to go with Middleton and Nemo.
Really, who was the brain trust that came up with this idea?
Also anyone care to look up what Julius Honka did after his draft year. I'm interested in seeing what his path was like. Last guy I can remember that was a "loaner".
|
|
|
|
Post by Disco Stu on Apr 5, 2016 11:13:33 GMT -5
Honka was drafted in the first round after 56 points with Swift Current and went up to the Texas Stars the next season after being drafted. Niemeläinen had half as many points this year but he is taller and bigger than Honka so who knows what the NHL guys will do. Swift Current went out in the first round that year but I bet there are NHL guys who feel that they could have got more out of Niemeläinen than Saginaw did. There is a bit of a fatal conceit with these coaches and GMs that they can shape and mold raw talent a lot more than they can actually mold it, a problem that exists in all sports, not just hockey.
|
|
|
|
Post by spiritfan8 on Apr 7, 2016 11:39:59 GMT -5
I'd certainly agree with that, DS. The last D-man that developed here was TJ Brodie, and even in that case, Barrie probably gets some of the credit.
I was tremendously impressed with Middleton's potential as a 16 yo, felt he regressed this year. I thought Nemo could have been better than he was. And these guys are studs. Our younger D-men, none of whom were first or second rounders, have either plateaued or regressed. (too soon to tell on Proner). Of all the Spirit's failings this season, I felt our D and its coaching was #1.
|
|
|
|
Post by kingpin794 on May 2, 2016 19:21:22 GMT -5
Well this might not be a dilemma anymore. Looks like Arty has signed on with a team in the KHL. Can't find a definitive link but elite prospects seems to be on to something. www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=265921Would hate to see him and go and get noting for him but we'll have a high pick to help ease the loss. |
|
|
|
Post by IGive1 on May 2, 2016 19:31:46 GMT -5
I would not be surprised if Nemo does not return either. His body language was not great the second half of the year, although he did seem to play a little better after the coaching change. to be honest, I did not think he improved much during the year. Arty was intent on playing the way he wanted to play and it usually did not involve his line mates. Saw a couple times during the year when teammates let him know it too. They should get a high pick if they place the Spirit at 4 they will get at least the 12 pick depending which league goes first.
|
|
|
|
Post by donjohnson on May 3, 2016 7:28:04 GMT -5
I would not be surprised if Nemo does not return either. His body language was not great the second half of the year, although he did seem to play a little better after the coaching change. to be honest, I did not think he improved much during the year. Arty was intent on playing the way he wanted to play and it usually did not involve his line mates. Saw a couple times during the year when teammates let him know it too. They should get a high pick if they place the Spirit at 4 they will get at least the 12 pick depending which league goes first. Don't forget that these rookies aren't used to playing 68 games...most of their leagues before the OHL are +/- 40 games if that. It's one of the major reasons why NHL teams sometimes tell their drafted players to go to the OHL instead of college because the season better prepares you for life as a pro. |
|
|
|
Post by Disco Stu on May 3, 2016 7:29:42 GMT -5
Two years ago was 1. O, 2. Q, 3. W
last year was 1. Q, 2. W, 3. O
So this year should be 1. W, 2. O, 3. Q
Flint was not stripped of their import pick, so they go 3rd amongst the OHL teams, which means Saginaw goes 5th, so...
2. Gue
5. Sud
8. Fli
11. Ham
14. Sag
I think that the best thing that could happen is for Niemeläinen to be drafted as high as possible in the NHL Draft, although I do not know if Saginaw will benefit from the loophole that happens if he goes in the 1st round of the NHL Draft. There will be a short window where hopefully the phone calls will be flying around so the Spirit staff can be as informed as possible on how to proceed. If Niemeläinen is drafted in the first round all that does is lengthen the timetable of when the Spirit need to know about future plans and it makes Drinkill's job easier. If not, there is still a chance that the team that drafts Niemeläinen will want him in the AHL, or that Niemeläinen's Finnish league team will want him back. I think the least likely outcome is that he returns here. If he does not come back, then the 14th pick should be able to get someone who can provide real value to the team. Keep in mind that Niemeläinen was chosen with the 18th pick.
|
|
|
|
Post by donjohnson on May 3, 2016 8:50:34 GMT -5
I really think that Artemov is a great player but he's also a black hole on the ice meaning once you pass him the puck, there's a good chance you're never going to see that puck again. I always watched his linemates after his shift and there was always a lot of frustration no matter who it was. Part of being a great player is making the players around you better and that's Artemov's biggest weakness IMO. Would I like to have him back next year, absolutely...I think he plays with a lot of grit and physicality in addition to his skill but the "black holedness" may be a blessing in disguise if he does end up in the KHL.
If he and Nemo both are gone, we'll obviously draft someone good at the #14 pick. Can we acquire by trade another import then or are teams locked into whomever they draft? I know the rules on imports have changed over the last few years.
|
|
|
|
Post by IGive1 on May 3, 2016 8:57:20 GMT -5
I would not be surprised if Nemo does not return either. His body language was not great the second half of the year, although he did seem to play a little better after the coaching change. to be honest, I did not think he improved much during the year. Arty was intent on playing the way he wanted to play and it usually did not involve his line mates. Saw a couple times during the year when teammates let him know it too. They should get a high pick if they place the Spirit at 4 they will get at least the 12 pick depending which league goes first. Don't forget that these rookies aren't used to playing 68 games...most of their leagues before the OHL are +/- 40 games if that. It's one of the major reasons why NHL teams sometimes tell their drafted players to go to the OHL instead of college because the season better prepares you for life as a pro. He played 69 games the year before and 62 games the year before that. www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=175894 |
|
|
|
Post by donjohnson on May 3, 2016 9:05:39 GMT -5
A lot of those were All-Star type tournaments where you're in one location for the duration. No playing in the Soo one night and back to Saginaw for a game less than 24 hours after the last game ended.
|
|
|
|
Post by IGive1 on May 3, 2016 10:04:01 GMT -5
Oh. Hmm ok.
|
|
|
|
Post by thepuckman on May 3, 2016 20:04:14 GMT -5
IMO losing Artemov is not that big of a deal. He can be replaced by a younger import player. Saginaw needs to purge some 1997 birth year players and this is an easy way to do it. I feel Nemo would be a bigger loss, given the lack of suitable defensive prospects coming in next year. And I think he has tremendous upside, significantly more than Artemov.
|
|
|
|
Post by Disco Stu on May 3, 2016 21:58:13 GMT -5
Apparently Artemov has signed with HC Sibir Novosibirsk of the KHL. Here's the article for those of us who speak Russian: hcsibir.ru/ru/news/4063This is disappointing to me because he is our leading scorer who was entering his prime 19 year old season. Yes, he did not show up in the playoffs, but you could argue that most of these guys did not show up either. Lots of people seem to hate the guy and are happy to see him leave but this move deprives us of many many goals which a raw 17 year old forward will not be able to replace next year. This does seem to free up our dilemma, but the real dilemma begins if Niemeläinen is drafted and then pried away to the AHL. We would then lose two very good import players with no compensation to show for it. If Niemeläinen is drafted in the first round of the NHL Draft, then the Spirit can make two Import selections, otherwise they will make one pick and pass on the second. |
|
|
|
Post by donjohnson on May 4, 2016 10:44:53 GMT -5
Here is the translation of the article...I'm hoping I'm not going to be in trouble for posting full text of a russian site...if so, I'm glad that Putin will be looking for Don Johnson and not me
The hockey club "Siberia" signed two-year contract with striker Artem Artemov (17.01.1997, 183/93) and defender Ilya Nekolenko (07/31/1993, 195/100).
Artyom is a graduate of "Wings of the Soviets." The last three seasons has performed in North America, the past two seasons spent in the «Saginaw Spirit» club of the OHL (135 games, 87 points (33 +54).
Ilya Nekolenko comes in "Siberia" of Novokuznetsk "Metallurg", which appeared in the last season (24 games, 2 points). Also in the CHL defenseman he played for Moscow "Spartak" and Cherepovets "Severstal". Currently, Ilya is in the location of the Russian Olympic team.
|
|
