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Post by ricardo on Sept 12, 2014 17:13:17 GMT -5
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Post by donjohnson on Sept 13, 2014 7:16:19 GMT -5
If Jake isn't the starter in Toledo, why wouldn't they return him to the OHL? That said, I think he will be but I still wouldn't rule out him being sent back and then us trading him.
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Post by bpfox on Sept 13, 2014 7:54:01 GMT -5
Everything I have read would indicate that the Red Wings have a very high opinion of Jake. Translation, he ain't coming back. He is starting his pro career and if that means backing up in Toledo, then he will be backing up in Toledo. That said, I think Jake will a fairly high number of starts and will get a chance to earn the starting job. What's really at stake is the backup job in Grand Rapids next year. I could be wrong, (did I just say that?) but I would put the odds of Jake being sent back at somewhere around 2%.
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Post by ohlhcky on Sept 13, 2014 8:07:01 GMT -5
I Say he returns
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Post by MidlandSpiritFan on Sept 13, 2014 10:27:56 GMT -5
Paterson was the backup for the Baby Wings in last night's Prospects tourney game in TC against the Baby Blues. Suspect he will start tonight when the Baby Wings play the Baby BJs.
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Post by bpfox on Sept 13, 2014 10:43:17 GMT -5
OK then, I'll put you into that 2% Here's why I'm in the 98% category. Number one, the Wings are high on Jake. Number two, the Wings have a history being very patient on player development. Number three, the Wings are fairly shallow in the goaltender position in the farm system (Basically they only have two guys to send to Toledo). Number four, in every account I have read Wings officials have said they expect Jake to be in Toledo this year. This is because their goaltending is set in both Detroit and Grand Rapids. Number four, they expect Jake to compete with Jared Coreau for the starters job in Toledo.(this is also a competition for next season's back up spot in Grand Rapids.) I just can't see Jake only being in Toledo for a short time. If he's there a long time, I can't see him being sent back. He is already signed by the Wings so they have money invested in him. So there you have it. My opinion and my logic for having that opinion. Would love to read your logic for thinking he is coming back. Peace
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Post by donjohnson on Sept 13, 2014 14:38:27 GMT -5
bpfox...I don't disagree with anything you said about the Wings liking him or their farm system, etc. I just can't see if you ARE so high on a kid why you would want him riding the pine and MAYBE playing 1 out of 3 games when he could be playing 80 or 90% of games in the OHL. Sure, practice may be a little bit better but if he doesn't beat out Coreau, he's at least facing live action in the OHL.
FYI, I'm only in the 2% IF he doesn't get the starting spot in Toledo.
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Post by bpfox on Sept 13, 2014 19:16:38 GMT -5
Perhaps I should clarify one thing. I don't think the goalie situation in Toledo this year is going to be your typical starter/backup deal. My guess is Jake will get close to 50% of the starts in a kind of a shared starter type of situation. One or the other will have to earn the starters roll. By the time that happens, the Red Wings will not want to send Jake back even if by that time he is in the back up roll. That said, I think Jake is the better goalie and he will prove that in the months ahead. PEACE
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Post by ohlhcky on Sept 14, 2014 2:04:23 GMT -5
Jake will be in Saginaw 5 on 20 won't make RedWINGS TO HAPPY
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Post by bpfox on Sept 14, 2014 8:00:11 GMT -5
Jake will be in Saginaw 5 on 20 won't make RedWINGS TO HAPPY Help a guy out. My brain hurts from trying to figure out what you meant to say. Are you trying to say the Red Wings won't be happy because he let in 5 goals last night so they are going to send him back to Saginaw after only one game? Were you at the game? Were all of the goals soft goals that Jake should have had, or were they the result of a defensive breakdown where Jake had no chance. Regardless, I can tell you this with 100% confidence. The Red Wings are never going to make that kind of decision on a player after one game. What I do know is the Red Wings are going to want to see how Jake does against professional players and they will want him to develop his game against professional players. He is going to have to make it against professional players even if that means backing up in Toledo. They are not going to bring in a free agent to back up in Toledo so they can send Jake back to the OHL. The are going to want him playing against a higher level of competition. That's how he will develop his game. They are going to want him playing in their system, not major junior.
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Post by kingpin794 on Sept 14, 2014 13:16:45 GMT -5
Let's go through the checklist:
-Was he drafted the first time he was eligible? Check
-Is he signed to an ELC? Check
-Is he gonna be in the OHL this year? Nope
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Post by thepuckman on Sept 14, 2014 13:55:50 GMT -5
The Wings returned Tom McCollum to the OHL for his overage season a few years ago. I wouldn't say it is 100% he won't be returned to OHL. But I guarantee he won't play for Saginaw again.
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Post by bpfox on Sept 14, 2014 15:58:43 GMT -5
The Wings returned Tom McCollum to the OHL for his overage season a few years ago. I wouldn't say it is 100% he won't be returned to OHL. But I guarantee he won't play for Saginaw again. You bring up a good point. If any "signed" overage player is returned by the NHL club to major junior, more often than not, it's going to be a goaltender. Mostly because there are fewer places for goaltenders than any other position. Not sure what the situation was back then, but I do know what the situation is this year and there is a spot open in the ECHL for Jake. With the Blackhawks not sending a goalie to Toledo this year it opens up a spot for Jake. It has been made pretty clear that the folks in Detroit want Jake to start his pro career sooner rather than later. There was actually a better than average chance that Jake would end up in Grand Rapids this season. The Red Wings were considering moving Mrazek up to the NHL club for this season, but decided to sign Gustavsson to a one year deal so Mrazek could have one more season in Grand Rapids. The bottom line here is that the Wings just aren't very deep at the goaltender position. I'm not saying that the possibility does not exist that Jake will be returned to the "O", I'm saying the possibility is pretty remote. We should know sooner rather then later on this one. On a side note, it's good to be talking about hockey again. It is also refreshing to share different opinions without tossing jabs at each other.
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Post by thepuckman on Sept 14, 2014 20:23:38 GMT -5
Just for reference purposes:
Thomas McCollum's career stats in OHL: 83-51-8-12 2.33 GAA .920 Save %
Jake Paterson's career stats in OHL: 70-54-7-5 3.44 GAA .904 Save %
NOTE: According to some research I did, McCollum didn't sign his entry-level deal with Detroit until October of his OA season. So he was returned to OHL and then signed. He was not signed prior to being sent back.
I believe that Paterson would be better served playing an OA year in the OHL instead of playing for Toledo in the ECHL. The caliber of hockey is better in the OHL IMO. Like I said before, I don't think Jake would play one minute for Saginaw if sent back. He would be a hot commodity for teams like Kingston and Peterborough, who have pretty good teams but might be lacking in net. If he were to get traded to say Peterborough, he instantly becomes their #1 goalie and would play somewhere between 50 and 55 regular-season games plus playoffs. If he goes to Toledo and splits time with Coreau, he might play 35-40 games against lesser competition.
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Post by donjohnson on Sept 15, 2014 7:09:44 GMT -5
The Wings returned Tom McCollum to the OHL for his overage season a few years ago. I wouldn't say it is 100% he won't be returned to OHL. But I guarantee he won't play for Saginaw again. You bring up a good point. If any "signed" overage player is returned by the NHL club to major junior, more often than not, it's going to be a goaltender. Mostly because there are fewer places for goaltenders than any other position. Not sure what the situation was back then, but I do know what the situation is this year and there is a spot open in the ECHL for Jake. With the Blackhawks not sending a goalie to Toledo this year it opens up a spot for Jake. It has been made pretty clear that the folks in Detroit want Jake to start his pro career sooner rather than later. There was actually a better than average chance that Jake would end up in Grand Rapids this season. The Red Wings were considering moving Mrazek up to the NHL club for this season, but decided to sign Gustavsson to a one year deal so Mrazek could have one more season in Grand Rapids. The bottom line here is that the Wings just aren't very deep at the goaltender position. I'm not saying that the possibility does not exist that Jake will be returned to the "O", I'm saying the possibility is pretty remote. We should know sooner rather then later on this one. On a side note, it's good to be talking about hockey again. It is also refreshing to share different opinions without tossing jabs at each other. I think if Jake was backing up in Grand Rapids, it's a no-brainer and if he's going to be getting at least 50% of the starts in Toledo, it's probably a no-brainer as well. Like I said, IMO if he's only getting one out of three starts in Toledo, he'd be better off starting 85-90% of the games in the OHL and then moving right to Grand Rapids next year as a backup or to Toledo as the #1. Like everyone has said, Jake's time in Saginaw is DONE and thanks to him for his efforts here.
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