Player Signings

[newguy]

Sept 5, 2008 11:59:02 GMT -5 igive2 said:

Sept 5, 2008 10:11:33 GMT -5 newguy said:

My friends, time to admit, they're going backward right now, not forward.

So lets say the Spirit wins 30 games this year and then Saad and Parker report next September (like Walch and Comrie did at age 17) does this change the direction?

Hypothetical. But I think it's a fair question. But this no-1992-born-player-thing if it stands is a complete and utter embarrassment. Players take a considerable leap from 1st year to 2nd year in the league -- Pyatt and McNeill certainly did. Although he was much-maligned, JM Rizk did as well. And Platt from his rookie year in North Bay did. We're already more than likely behind developmentally for the 09-10 SEASON!!!! Simply because there aren't players hopping from 16 year old rookie to 17 year old sophomore.

Slice it anyway you want, but this is hard to defend. Real hard.
I can't say I'm surprised.

I promise promise promise to be the first first first if Saad and Parker report next year to take back my "disaster" talk.

Our numbers are growing. Those that choose to speak out and not wear the rosy-coloured glasses that Goslin would like to sell you all for $19.99 a pair.

me...spiritfan...topphatt.....we all want better for our hockey team. Call us crazy.

[thepuckman]

Interesting comments being made by everyone.

I think we need to compare the Ryan Daniels situation to that of Patrick Asselin last year. I am a big Ryan Daniels fan, always have been. But I don't see how him playing in a few games will assist Saginaw in trading him. I am also puzzled by the comments on here, since most people seem to think the Spirit were made to look foolish in the way they handled Asselin. So why should they treat Daniels the same way? The organization has been criticized for their handling of Asselin, so why should Daniels show up. One season we ask a player to come while we try to trade him, he does, leaves the team, forces a trade, and fans bash the organization. We don't bring a player back this year who is not a part of the plans, doesn't want to be in Saginaw, and the organization still gets ripped by the "fans" for the way they treat him. So what do you prefer? How does the organization win in this situation?

The draft has been disected enough, so I am not going to comment.

Todd Watson is a good coach, in part because he holds the team accountable for their actions. If players can't take that he is tough, walk away just like Taylor has and give your spot to someone else. The players, if they don't like it, need to police themselves better. Obviously he is trying to instill this in his players. We have had a problem in the past with players doing whatever they want and the organization looking the other way, so this is a welcome change. It works for other coaches in the league, like Kilrea, so maybe it works. Players love to play for Ottawa because of Kilrea. He makes them better, both juniors and pros.

I make my own decisions and have my own ideas newguy. Craig Goslin in no way controls what I write on this board. You seem to have a real issue with people who don't believe the same way you do. You say you want better for the organization and that's fine. So do I. You choose to use negatives to express your "optimism" for the upcoming year. I choose to be optimistic for the season. This is a medium for fans to write about the Spirit any way they choose, and just because some of us want to look at it from a different persepctive than you doesn't make us cheerleaders, puppets, drinking the Kool-Aid, wearing rose-colored glasses, or whatever else you can think of. Are some of our insights and thoughts misguided, perhaps yes. But that is the way we choose to express our thoughts.

As I said before, I respect everyone's opinions about the Spirit, and I think they provide some great conversations. I hope we can continue with the "Spirit"ed conversations throughout the season.

[MidlandSpiritFan]

Sept 5, 2008 22:33:09 GMT -5 thepuckman said:

As I said before, I respect everyone's opinions about the Spirit, and I think they provide some great conversations. I hope we can continue with the "Spirit"ed conversations throughout the season.

puckman.....good post!! For us "displaced" fans (check my user name) this forum and the NOOF (GOOF for DJ) are where I get my information about all that is happening with the Spirit and the OHL. Please, please, please don't leave because you disagree with someone. I enjoy reading all of your posts and engaging in the debates every now and then be it from half way around the world. Suffice it to say that we can all "agree to disagree" but what is wrong with that?? Nothing.......enjoy the 08-09 season, wish I could be there in person. Who knows!! I might even make a surprise appearance in lower level section 18 this season. Stay tuned!!

[borderfan8]

First post gang. Was curious if Edwards trades some players (which some earlier posts suggests - will it make room for some 92's?
Saw the Blue and White game - and some of those 92's looked like they could run with the big boys

[spiritfan8]

Welcome, border fan. Good question. I'd have to believe any trade would involve young players (or draft picks, although I'd think the young players would be a priority), either to make room for someone we already have, or to get someone on board this year. I look for Cody Sol (91) to stay up this year. Personally, I liked Paton in camp last yr, but I'll have to see him tonight to make an assessment there. Since there are no 92s left in camp, right now those would be our youngest players, so any trade (lmost certainly involving a Spirit d-man) would hopefully strengthen us in that area.

[teamspirit08]

I'm just a little suprised there is no conversation yet on John Kavanagh.

[borderfan8]

Agree with the comment about Sol.
Still miffed why 92's in camp were not signed to play on a call up basis.
Why are Impens, Braun and Fitze not even playing in any exhibition games - unless they are a surprise appearence tonite. The three were "pleasant surprises". From what I saw in that game - I was impressed as well

[bpfox]

Keep in mind here folks that Todd Watson is going to put the best team he can on the ice. If that means no 92s it means no 92s. That does not mean they won't play. I am sure there will be call ups. Depends a lot on who goes to pro camp and how long they are gone.

There seems to be plenty of folks here who are complaining about how bad the team will be this year, but want 92s on the team for the sake of having 92s on the team. Be glad we don't need them. That's a plus in my book.

[newguy]

It's almost unprecedented in the OHL and the quality organizations of the league would never consider it.

The Knights in 04-05 were a powerhouse and they had 3 16 year-olds who saw playoff action...Harrison Reed, Scott Aarssen, Steve Ferry. Ferry played way more than the other two in the regular season.

The next year, the Knights went to the Conference Finals and had 199 man-games played by 16 year old rookies.

No one can tell me you can't win and play your "kids".

If you're not a Mem Cup contender, your job is to develop young players so that your team is at some point.

Just saying, of course.

There's every chance the Spirit drafted poorly in the 1st round with Saad. We don't know. Let's face it, some of you last year probably thought Pachis was the second coming. I hoped he was but after watching for a month knew they'd blown the pick. A scout I talked to said it was the biggest "reach" he'd seen in the 1st round in six years of a player who reported. He'd had Pachis slotted for late 3rd round/early 4th round.

Look, they did great with Swarsz. They really did. I have TRIED to tell some of you, I look at things objectively.

I get what BP is doing, and I do think he really believes it. But no one under the sun knows whether the development years for Murovich or Comrie helped/hurt/did nothing for them. They might be even more impactful than they might be this year had they been able to crack a spot with the veteran team in 06-07 like Nick Crawford did.

All I know is McNeill/Pyatt/Asselin played their first four years here, and not a soul thinks they'd have been better off not getting used to the city, the facilities, their billets, and developing a real hatred for losing which I'm sure they did. It only helped learning on the job which they certainly did. You couldn't even recognize Pyatt when he came back on ice for his 2nd year compared to his 1st.

Maybe it'll work, but it's my "opinion" that it's another reason the scuttlebutt around the league is that Edwards is in over his head, and was brought here under-qualified so Garber could be in the office next to him and tell him what to do, which Mancini refused to do at any cost, and the inevitable cost was his job. That's all.

[bpfox]

Just a couple points of clarification if I may. I have never said I like the fact that there are no 92s on the team. What I have said is I'm not bothered by it. Clearly it would have been better for the team had Saad reported. I'm just not going to jump off any ledges or lose one minutes sleep about it.

Using McNeil, Pyatt and Asselin in this argument isn't really a fair comparison since at that time they were all getting top ice time. Great for their individual development but not good for the team out put. Also keep in mind that McNeil was more than just our number one pick, he was the number one pick in the draft. That player is always expected to get a ton of ice time. The better your team gets the less impact first year players have. You will never convince me that TJ Brodie didn't benifit more in his development by getting more playing time in Leamington than he would have riding the pine in Saginaw. Brodie was taken 47th overall in 2006 while Crawford was taken 12th. Crawford got plenty of ice time as a 16 year old while Brodie spent most of his time in JrB. My opinion is that Brodie is a better player today because of it.

One final point, Don Edward's office is not right next to Richard Garber's. It's two doors down.

[spiritfan8]

Sept 6, 2008 21:43:35 GMT -5 bpfox said:

One final point, Don Edward's office is not right next to Richard Garber's. It's two doors down.

Touche, bp--that's pretty funny.

Given our forward situation this season--especially if Jack Combs doesn't come back--Saad would not have been riding the pine.

But play has started, and as promised, I am done with the draft, unless some specific point jumps up. The players we have are the ones that are here, good, bad and/or indifferent, and the Spirithorn and I are ready to start cheering in real games. Bring it!

[newguy]

Sept 6, 2008 21:43:35 GMT -5 bpfox said:

Just a couple points of clarification if I may. I have never said I like the fact that there are no 92s on the team. What I have said is I'm not bothered by it. Clearly it would have been better for the team had Saad reported. I'm just not going to jump off any ledges or lose one minutes sleep about it.

Using McNeil, Pyatt and Asselin in this argument isn't really a fair comparison since at that time they were all getting top ice time. Great for their individual development but not good for the team out put. Also keep in mind that McNeil was more than just our number one pick, he was the number one pick in the draft. That player is always expected to get a ton of ice time. The better your team gets the less impact first year players have. You will never convince me that TJ Brodie didn't benifit more in his development by getting more playing time in Leamington than he would have riding the pine in Saginaw. Brodie was taken 47th overall in 2006 while Crawford was taken 12th. Crawford got plenty of ice time as a 16 year old while Brodie spent most of his time in JrB. My opinion is that Brodie is a better player today because of it.

One final point, Don Edward's office is not right next to Richard Garber's. It's two doors down.

I actually think the talent levels and certainly, "experience" levels of the Spirit team of 03-04 and this one are eerily similar.

So if you ask me, McNeill/Pyatt/Asselin as 2nd year players would play PLENTY on this team.

This year's team does not have a Nick Lees coming back who can score 42 goals. Well they do have Combs who might score 68 points, but Combs is more a sniper, while Lees was also a playmaker. I expect Combs to have about an 80 point season.

Why the drop-off?

No McDonough, Nigel Williams, Mursak (for about 35-40 of the first 68 games at least), Zaborsky, or Asselin for the first 15 games or so. The company you keep offensively matters.

The 03-04 team had only one player finish with more than 13 goals. Although Platt totalled 25, 7 with SAG, 18 with ERIE.

This team will have to do a lot by committee.

Seriously, I'm not sure they have a 30-goal scorer besides Combs. Szwarz and Chappell have outside shots at 20. Murovich may score 25. That's it. That's the list.

I agree about Brodie. Was probably better served playing 25 minutes a night in Leamington than he was playing 6-7 with our very talented 06-07 team. It doesn't mean he should have been up, because they needed Crawford's size and better play in his own end, given some guys weren't the most responsible D-men in their own end at times.

As for perhaps a final word....I think a good GM if he has any hesitation about his 1st round pick reporting, he gets it absolutely set it stone that his 2nd and 3rd round picks will. Period.

I have referenced Plymouth taking Petrecki before in the 1st round. But they took Chris Terry in the 2nd. He came, he showed up, he started conquering. But to imply Edwards isn't exactly Mike Vellucci is similar to how Lloyd Bentsen took down Dan Quayle for comparing himself to JFK in 1988.

[bpfox]

Sometimes I wonder why I bother with these boards. I try very hard to make clear and concise posts. I try very hard to make sure everyone gets what I am trying to say. I don't expect, and quite frankly, don't want everybody to agree with me. What's the fun in that. I do, however, get just a little tired of having to correct things that folks think I said, that I never in fact said. But in the spirit of full disclosure, here goes.

spiritfan8 - I have never said Saad would be riding the pine. I have never even implied it. There is no question that if Saad had reported he would be getting top ice time. First round picks always do. That said, if you drop down to your 3rd or 4th or 5th round choices, chances are that those guys are way better off playing another year in JrB and coming to camp next season as 17 year old rookies.

newguy - Here is the part of your post I would like to respond to:

I actually think the talent levels and certainly, "experience" levels of the Spirit team of 03-04 and this one are eerily similar.

So if you ask me, McNeill/Pyatt/Asselin as 2nd year players would play PLENTY on this team.

This year's team does not have a Nick Lees coming back who can score 42 goals.

In 03-04 Saginaw was coming off a season in which they finished dead last in the league. There is clealy a huge difference between that team and this year's team.

McNeil, Pyatt & Asselin - I'm not quite sure why you want to compare them as second year players and how they would fit in with this year's team. It does not make any sense to me, so I guess I won't comment only to say it's a no win arguement. It's like when folks try and discuss players from the past to players in the present in any sport. Even the experts can't agree in those situations.

Nick Lees, I'm glad you brought him up. Saginaw has never had a team in which Nick Lees returned. So it's kind of a moot point. That said, guys like Nick Lees and Tyler Haskins have added greatly to the Spirit teams in which they played. They both had one thing in common with each other and both of those teams have one thing in common with this year's team. Neither of those guys started the Season with the Spirit. None of us knew they were coming at this time in the season. Just like we don't know who's coming this year. With one and perhaps two ( I think it will only be one because I don't believe Jack is going to get an AHL contract. For his sake, I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me he will be back in Saginaw this season) over age positions available, you can bet someone is coming. We just don't know who.

I have raised many eyebrows with my predictions about this season. Fine, I can live with that. But I will tell you this, This year's team will finish better than most folks think they will. They will finish better than the 03-04 team did and they will do it without McNeill, Pyatt, Asselin and Nick Lees. Peace.

[newguy]

You'd be SUCH a good poster without the whining and condescending nature. I don't point out your spelling and grammar issues, why question our literacy skills?

Woe is me...I don't know why I bother with these boards....

But other than that, I like our back and forth.

Two paragraphs spent on one semantical point. Nick Lees didn't play for the Spirit in 2002-03. Shocker for all of us. Call Constantine. Revise the record books.

The POINT was we had a back-to-back 25 goal scorer and PROVEN vet coming in from another team to join a young and somewhat rag-tag group of talented rookies and the occasional misfit.

They haven't made an addition "similar" to Lees from another squad. Or even a Justin McCutcheon for that matter. And they've lost tons of offence from the start of last season with Mursak, Zaborsky, McDonough, Nigel, Asselin, etc.

Other than POSSIBLY the Euros? Has Edwards added an impact player...a NON-goalie since the start of last season?

This is open to anyone. I'm not being freaking negative. I'm asking a very legitimate question. Pretend this is sports talk radio instead of "Happy Hour".

I owe an apology to the 2 Europeans. They might be Mursak/Kvapil level. They might be Tomas Csabi. No one knows, but I really shouldn't suggest they can't score 20 goals this year.

I don't get the sensitivity. It's amazing. spiritfan8 never IMPLIED that you IMPLIED Saad would be riding the pine. I more got the sense it was referring to the younger players who didn't play a lot like Crawford or Clouthier in the 06-07 season.

And we DID know they were coming. The Tyler Haskins deal had been done in the summer. Same with Maunu, same with Garlock.
The Lees deal with either late September/early October, but Haskins went through the full training camp. So yeah, factual accuracy...and all that...it's just not easy getting through sometimes...

SO glad you mentioned OAs...

Lees - they overpaid big-time for him because Costa was worried about scoring.

Haskins - a great trade bringing a proven vet and leader to what was thought to be an OHL Championship contender.

Please -- and don't duck around this one.....

1) Who are some OAs you'd like to see the Spirit bring here...

2) What should we pay for them and what's their motivation to come to a non-contender?

I think these are very fair and valid questions...even for Don Edwards or Todd Watson at the first Blue Line Club with Wayne Newton.

[sensspiritfan]

I think a big concern with the 92's is school. The players that stay can only attain 4 credits per year so if they go back they can get 8 credits and be able to finish their high school next year if they come back to play.

So maybe the 92's were offered spots but turned them down for this reason.

Another reason may be that may want to go the NCAA route and want to preserve their eligibility ( if their name is on a game sheet-exhibition or regular season- they lose eligibility ).