2008/09 Predictions

[newguy]

I'm lost. Am I the butt of a joke? It's ok if I am, I have a healthy sense of humor.

I've only read this board or known of its existence since probably halfway through two seasons ago, so I can assure if I was "Bruce Wayne-ing" it and had duel identities, I wouldn't label myself "newguy". LOL.

Otherwise, it just looks like a couple people whispering and laughing, which if you don't think is rude, then as I said before, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what this message board is for. Thought it was to talk about the Saginaw Spirit and not a private inside-joke club.

[donjohnson]

perhaps it's just coincidence but you structure your posts eerily similar to a former poster who has been kicked off the site a number of times for his constant bashing of the team and continually arguing points beyond exhaustion. If you have been reading this board on/off for 2 seasons, you should know what myself and others are talking about with regards to this past poster.

If indeed you are a "new guy" then welcome to the boards! Be wary, however, because you've entered the pool through the deep end with very long, detailed posts that we really have no way of validating. If you stick to the thread topics (as much as possible) and offer insightful opinions, you shouldn't have any trouble with anyone on this message board. WELCOME!

[newguy]

OK. It helps that someone explained it. I didn't know about a big controversy. I'd like to think I'm not THAT detailed, but perhaps the other guy was detailed and rude. But if all he did was bash the team, seems like a lot to get banned from a silly message board.

But if it was more than that, never mind, none of my business.

[SaginawGensFan]

It's all good. Welcome to the board.

[mccartystillsuxs]

What if Saad and Parker don't report to the Spirit?

Who's to blame GM, scouts, or ownership?

What should the consequence be?

How do the spirit make up for the loss?

[thepuckman]

If they don't show, you play with the guys you have. It's cliche I know, but what else are you going to do. You don't sit and mope about the players not here, you use the ones you have most effectively. And Todd will have them ready.

We won't be missing much, if history stays on course. Check this out:

JM Rizk 9-24-33 -33
P. McNeill 3-11-14 -19
M. Corrente 6-9-15 -38
Z. Torquato 19-18-37 +4
N. Crawford 1-7-8 +11
D. Pachis 1-5-6 -3

Add to those:

T. Pyatt 9-9-18 -24
P. Asselin 5-4-9 -10
J. Szwarz 12-21-33 +11

These are thr first year stats of the rookie ("underage") seasons for the players listed. Not real impressive, even for the arguably best draft in history (McNeill,Pyatt,Asselin).

You cannot pin the blame on one person. Really you shouldn't blame anyone. They took a chance - it might pay off, it might not. There should be no consequence for these young men not reporting this year. You deal with it and move on.

In order to accomodate for the "loss," however slight it may be based on previous years, the players on the team will need to pick up the slack. Murovich and Szwarz will increase their scoring with more playing time, and other players like Pleckaitis and Chappell (if he is here and healthy - two big ifs) should help as well. Others will assist too.

In a previous post it was mentioned that Pachis will be out for a while (maybe forever) and Brad Walch is going to the USHL again. The poster mentioned that the season looks bleak for the Spirit. Really. Pachis scored one goal last year and looked out of place most of the time he was on the ice. Walch was playing in the USHL for Des Moines, did not score a goal, and was minus 25 or so. I guess I don't see how the season is lost because of this.

Just my opinion.

[spiritfan8]

So what you are saying is that if Pachis doesn't come back (big IF, I haven't seen any hint of his being done except on this board) it doesn't matter because he didn't do well last year. And if neither Pick #1 or Pick #2 show this year, no big deal because first year players don't usually contribute much, at least with the Spirit. I guess you must be a "glass half full" kind of a guy.
Myself, I tend to the half empty point of view. I'm seeing a team that--at least so far--has to have one of the least productive first round picks ever in Pachis. Even had they picked 30th, I would have expected a better outcome for the Spirit than what they got. Fortunately for them, Szwarz did well and took the heat off. I'm also looking at a team that could see NEITHER of their Top 2 picks reporting this season. So that's 3 of 4 first and second round picks essentially blown in two years. And you really don't think anyone should be held accountable??? I sure wish you were my boss...............
Back to that point about first year players and their production, or lack thereof. For the most part, leaving aside players like Stamkos, Tavares, etc, you are correct. Most of them don't produce a lot. But do you really believe that for that reason, it doesn't matter whether they play with their OHL club the first year? I would posit that McNeill, Pyatt and Asselin were much better players in the long run BECAUSE they were put through the Spirit meat-grinder at age 16. That first year is all about learning, on and off the ice. The absence of Saad and Parker would just put them behind the learning curve. Could they overcome it long term? Maybe. But you cannot convince me that they--or the Spirit--are just as well off if they stay home.
Obviously if these guys are here playing this season, this is all a moot point. But if they do not show, count on me having A LOT to say about it over the next few months.

[IGive1]

The Pachis injury did not turn out that bad. Walsh stats look bad because he played on a horrible team. I know he was recruited real hard to make the team last year. I don't know if they really need him this year since they are so deep on the back end. In the early post I was just giving an update on his status. You have to admitt the team looks weaker going into camp than they did this time last year. I'm not assigning blame, just making an observation.

[thepuckman]

Pessimism runs rampant on this board. Of course the team is weaker at this point than we were last year. Look at who we have lost from the team:

Asselin
Mursak
Zaborsky
Williams
Berard
Sinfield
Clouthier
Jarram
R. McDonough

Take those players off of any team and they will be weaker.

sf8, I agree. Saad and Parker will be making a mistake by not showing up this year. But, focusing all of the attention on them disrespects the players who actually want to wear the uniform of the Saginaw Spirit. I can't make them come to Saginaw, you can't make them come, nobody can make them come. They will come when they feel as though they are ready. They will definitely be behind the curve, but that is their choice.

As for Pachis, my comments come from watching him last year. He did not put forth the effort to get a regular shift like Szwarz did. Szwarz earned his spot on the team, and you could say that Pachis earned his 1-3 shifts per game. He needs to put forth more effort, or he becomes, as sf8 listed, one of the least productive picks in draft history.

Tough to say who is at fault if the players don't show up. Scouts look at potential, and Saad and Parker were both very well thought of. Some players don't develop like they would have thought (Pachis). Also, don't discount players not wanting to play here (see Bobby Ryan among others). GMs and coaches attempt to sell their program to the parents and the players. You can only sell so much. Ultimately the parents make the decision. From all accounts, Saad is a very young player who may not be ready to move away from home. I don't know much about Parker, other than someone said he is going to play USHL next year (may or may not be true).

As for Walch, I am of the opinion the Spirit only want him because he is from Saginaw. Now, I have never seen him play, but in a league that could be seen as a step below the OHL, his numbers weren't very good, bad team or not.

As I said above, the focus should be on those players that want to play for the Saginaw Spirit in 2008-2009. sf8, message boards are great because you can say anything you want. And talk about anything as well. I look forward to reading your future posts. They are always very insightful. A little banter back and forth is a good thing.

[mccartystillsuxs]

All were good points, heres my take on the questions I asked.

If Saad and Parker do not report this year that puts the Spirit at least two years behind. Your stats show that there is a big jump and there are very few that can make an impact the first year. Now bare with me on this, say I don't play my first year in the league. Why would I make the decision to play the next year if its my draft year? If its my draft year why would I take the chance to struggling and possibly screw up my draft ranking?

I think the GM is ultimately responsible for this. He should of know what the kids intentions were. And if there was a question mark why waste such a high pick on them? I'm sure that we could of at least gotten an established player for a first or second if we would of traded those picks.

As much as I would hate to see a new GM come in, if he did not do his homework and sets this team back 2yrs then make the change now and don't let him screw up another draft. If dealership made those picks then still shame on the GM for allowing that to happen and not making the fans aware of that and allowing the franchise to continue to fall.

I see no way that they can make up for this lose.

[acwright84]

Im not necessarily an edwards fan but how could he have possibly known the kids intentions if they don't even know their own intentions. Or perhaps they changed their minds, Im giving edwards the benefit of the doubt here until proven otherwise.

Innocent until proven guilty right?

[mccartystillsuxs]

Sorry I guess I was unaware that the kids didn't even know their own intentions.  I was just thinking that the kids were interviewed prior to the draft or should I say that I pay that they were interview prior to the draft.  I think most teams do this at least with the kids they plan of picking high.
I would think that most kids have a good idea of where they want to play in the future.  I know that Kessel and Porter knew that wanted to play college hockey and they did.

acwright if they don't show up then who is guilty? What should happen to the guilty party(ies)?

[spiritfan8]

Puckman, one thing I failed to make clear is my total agreement with you re: you play with who you got. If the season starts without Saad/Parker, Combs, or anyone else, then that is the hand we are dealt. I certainly have faith in Watson to do the very best job possible with the players he has this season.
In particular,if Saad does not report because he and his family feel he is too young, I would certainly respect that decision--I might even agree with it. But given that we were reading about this possibility within a week after the draft, I would certainly assign some blame (accountability?!) to the people who get paid to know these things. And THEY are the people I will be saying a lot about should Saad and Parker fail to report. Not the players themselves.
After a week of 18 hours days working at hosting the State Little League tournament, and then the sight of Todd Jones blowing the game in the 9th tonight, may I say that I am very happy to be reading all these very good and interesting posts? ( Especially since they have nothing to do with baseball!!!! ) I am looking forward to many more discussions over the coming season!

[acwright84]

mccarty what I meant by "they don't know their intentions" is that apparently they haven't decided what they want to do. Otherwise we would've heard for sure one way or the other. So what I meant is if they don't know for sure if they want to come to saginaw or not how would edwards know. Even if they interviewed them they obviously wouldn't have had an answer. Or like I said before initially they said they would then reconsidered. If they don't show up their are several guilty parties GM, Players, Scouts, ETC. Everyone involved has some responsibility not a single person.

[IGive1]

Saad is a late birthdate so he could skip this year and still play 2 years here before his NHL draft year. If I was him that is what I would do. Play this year with your brother, probably be the last chance to do so (I just think family stuff is more important) and arrive next year a little bigger and stronger.

Spiritfan8,

You are so right about the Tigs, they are driving me up the wall.